. >> it's tough, because certain like new york have high union, and okay jobs. the kind of jobs the companies are losing and making if they have natural resources in the growth area, but largely speaking to gary's point. unions mean higher wages and higher unemployment. removing them means lower unemployment, lower wages. right now, the economy could use the jobs more than the higher wages and both in the real world. but frankly the wheels have left the barn, whatever, because they're losing jobs in the state that are allowing you to pay unions-- and unless the whole country has the same rules it's already going to happen. >> brenda: larry, unions are fighting hard because their membership has been declining dramatically, just 12% of the work force right now? >> exactly right, brenda. this is about keeping and creating jobs in a state like michigan, highly skilled work force and they've been bleeding jobs. and unions are big labor is big business in this country and a billion dollars a year on these elections and these are failed, failed policies and that's why